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Nov. 3, 2021

Marriage: lifetime covenant OR lease option? (part 2 with Staci Bartley)

Marriage: lifetime covenant OR lease option? (part 2 with Staci Bartley)

Jen embarks on a second episode with her friend and relationship guru, Staci Bartley, to discuss the institution of marriage over history (shocking!) and the origin of the shame and guilt often attributed to the marriage narrative. As you may recall from their first episode, Jen admits her view on marriage has been limited - the "holy grail and right way” being a long term, contract/covenantal marriage. Staci brings a new perspective stating that relationships may be better under a “lease option” scenario. A definite #antidotetotheechochamber kind of episode.

Jen’s website:


Jen’s Instagram:


Our guest for this episode:

Staci Bartley, Relationship Expert

Guest Bio: 

After more than 25 years of  personal struggle, shame, and guilt...I can honestly say I'm proud of my messy past. Because, it has given me the wisdom, knowledge, and the gifts to contribute to my clients. Trust me when I say I've lived many of the struggles that I now support and mentor my clients through. Including losing my dad at the age of 7, becoming a mom at 17, going through 2 divorces, and raising 6 children as a single mom. (Yes, I have a PhD in the school of life! In addition to my PhD- I am an Integrated Therapist, as well as a Divorce Mediator -incase you were needing some formal credentials too.:)

I empower couples and individuals from around the world to embrace their humanness, and love full out with NO regrets. We are not broken, we have just never been taught how to "do" relationships. This NOT knowing allows us to leverage and manipulate ourselves and our partners in the name of LOVE. It's time to stop spreading the lies and romantic stories that are just that: falsehoods and storybook fantasies that make us feel like we aren't good enough. Because the truth is: creating Love For A Lifetime looks nothing like fairy tales and movies.

If you're looking to really understand how relationships work, and learn real skills you can use for the rest of your life from a person who has LIVED what you're going through, then you can stop searching, because you've finally found the help you've been looking for.

Staci’s website:


Staci’s podcast and radio show:


Staci’s Instagram:


The origin story of Listen for REAL and the change we seek to create:

I am described as a white, cisgendered, straight-identifying, American-born woman with a history of Christian and conservative influences. My lived experience is one of solid economic security and educational privilege. This is the lens through which I viewed life  for the majority of my adult years - and it created a comfortable echo chamber where “my existing views were neatly reinforced and alternative ideas were rarely considered…”

I decided to pursue meaningful work, passion projects, and relationships that would serve as an antidote to the echo chamber. This podcast is part of that work.

Rather than put people in stereotypical  “boxes” -  I want to grow more curious and openminded and this means listening deeply to another person’s story, especially those who differ from me. It means challenging my old paradigms and assumptions.

I pursue this on a public platform because I want to see this mindset catch fire in our culture. We want to spur listeners toward healthy, candid conversations, and deep LISTENING with and for the people  in their lives and especially those whom they don’t know.

I am hopeful that the “antidote to the echo chamber” becomes a mantra for others - creating profound change. Thanks for being a part of this vision! -Jen